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Should Goths be allowed to wear what they want without being judged?

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No
18% 260 votes Total: 1412 votes
Yes
82% 1152 votes

No

by Judy Joyce

Created on: September 14, 2008   Last Updated: August 29, 2011

The way in which this question is posed confuses the meaning of any answer that can be given by either side of this debate. Because of that confusion, I have little choice but to respond by answering that Goths should not wear what they want without being judged. Were I to agree that the Goths could wear what they want, I would by default force upon their detractors the prohibition against thinking their own thoughts. Thought police do not support the rights of either group. Why not agree to arrive at a balanced discussion of what the questions really are.

A better way to frame this question is to illuminate what is fair to both. If Goths can wear what they want, thinkers can think their own judgements. If Goths cannot wear what they want, then thinkers will have no thoughts to think by which to judge. Pick one.

Where questions of what constitutes proper attire enters into the public discourse, the setting itself has a bearing on the logical response. An example of this might demonstrate what is meant by considering an employer who is hiring someone for a job. Whatever business is involved, most likely that business is supporting more employees than just one. If the success of the business is, as most business are, dependent upon an image that brands a product, how employees dress can effect everyone if sales are effected.

When imagining the business as one whose target buyer is a Goth culture, then employees might be paid to dress Goth style. Gothwear is welcomed and will yield favorable results for Goths and non-Goths alike if they are. If the business is Hooters, that just won't work. In the private sector, the reasonableness of not allowing certain dress is reasonable and practical too.

Even in government venues, uniforms have been required. It is critical to public safety that employees be identified as representing a government interest. It would not be fair, even to Goths. if someone called the police on them. What of the follow up to that call was to have Goths approached and pulled over by un-uniformed police officers trying to question them about the report. Nurses and doctors are even more obvious when it comes to uniforms. It assists Goths too, if they need health assistance and they can see who to approach by seeing that uniform.

Where clothing is an issue in an educational setting, the general rule is that schools and their administrative boards, when dealing with minors, can set rules that restrict the rights of minors. This rule is applied across the board and not limited to Goths.

However, in the sites deemed accessible to the public at large, Goths can wear whatever they would like. But, it can not be legislated that those who see them can't think and judge what they see anyway they want to. This is life. Even the teen in the mall in her Bannana Republic garb is subject to judgement. I see no reason why Goths would, could or should be insulated from what everyone else endures.

Learn more about this author, Judy Joyce.
Click here to send this author comments or questions.

Yes

by Kimberly H.

Created on: February 24, 2008   Last Updated: May 26, 2009

As someone who has embraced the Gothic Subculture for several years, I know exactly what it is like to be judged. I know what it's like to be sitting on the subway train being gawked at by passengers; I know what it's like to be minding my own business only to have someone whisper to their friends about the way I look; I know what it's like to be snarled at with a discontent face.

But on the other end of the spectrum, I know what it's like to be smiled at; I know what it's like to be complimented on my hair and on my jacket; I know what it's like to be appreciated, celebrated, and embraced by those who pass by me and by close friends in the Gothic subculture.

I have personally dealt with it every single day - both embracing and disregarding both ends of the spectrum.

Whether we should be judged or not has an obvious answer - but that doesn't change reality. And reality is that every single person on this Earth is judged within the first few seconds of seeing them - it's called the "First Impression". Do we deserve this? Of course not - appearances say nothing about our personalities. But the fact is, there really isn't any way that we can stop people from thinking what they want, especially when they don't say it out loud. We are always going to be judged - we just have to do our best to be judged in a positive manner, or to disregard those who judge without justification.

Looking back, I re-call a lady who met me for the first time. She met me on the subway, and with no seats left she was forced to sit beside me. She turned her head, and upon speaking she said, "You could be such a pretty girl if you just dressed like...", and than she stopped in mid-sentence, completely embarrassed. I knew what she was going to say.

...If I just dressed like what? Just like you?

If I wore the latest over-priced apparel from Dolce and Gabbana, dyed my hair beach-babe blonde and wore a sexy pair of Gucci sunglasses? Your flawed perception of beauty is exactly what I am trying to get away from. A perception that has been designed and sold by the very people you buy your over-priced clothes from. I don't want to be a product of the assembly line. I don't want to be a victim of what the media SAYS that I should wear. I don't want to be a product of trends or fads.

I dress the way I do because I am trying to get away from this concept of beauty that the media has placed on our heads. The whole "this makes you attractive, this does not" mentality to me is very unhealthy, yet many people seem to be a product of it. If I were part of your ideals, I would be on the on Jenny Craig diet trying to maintain my physique and size zero waistline. And that is what I love about my subculture - the fact that we can look the way we do and not be judged by each other. Everything is embraced, and everybody is beautiful, no matter what their weight or appearance - because that is only the exterior. We don't have to look like a twig in order to be respected or appreciated by our peers - we can be curvy, average, and voluptuous as well.

People may tell you that a Goth is dressing the way they do because they want attention or are trying to relay a message of non-conformity. The fact is, we are not trying to get a reaction out of you. Whether you accept us or hate us makes no difference to how we feel about ourselves. We don't dress to impress. We don't try to prove ourselves to our peers and change our dress code just to impress a complete stranger. What do we care what a stranger thinks of us?

We don't share the same observations as mainstream society. When you sit there in your subway seat and think that we are affected by your dirty looks or criticism, you are assuming that we think the same way as you do, therefore assuming we are somehow infected by your judgement. We are comfortable in our own skin, and we dress the way we do because we think it looks good and it makes us feel good. You may not think so, but that again we didn't ask you.

Some people of the Goth Subculture have a theory about why we all wear black, and it is definitely something that I can agree with. It is said that the reason we wear all black is because there is nothing to be judged upon. It is a plain, dark, and there are no logos or brand names - therefore, there is nothing to be judged upon. And if you cannot be judged by your clothing, the person regarding you is forced to speak to you in order to form their opinion. And this is the way it should be. We should all be judged upon who we are, not on the clothes we wear. And that doesn't just go for the Goth subculture, that goes for all subcultures. Like the old saying goes, "Don't judge a book by its cover".

But unfortunately, where this theory is flawed is societies general outlook on the colour black, itself. Although the black may be plain and without logos, it is still a colour - a colour that has a bad reputation with the media, especially. If you wear black, you're Goth, and if you're Goth, that means you warship Satan and shoot up schools. According to Color Psychology by David Johnson, "Black is the color of authority and power. It is popular in fashion because it makes people appear thinner. It is also stylish and timeless. Black also implies submission. Priests wear black to signify submission to God. Some fashion experts say a woman wearing black implies submission to men. Black outfits can also be overpowering, or make the wearer seem aloof or evil. Villains, such as Dracula, often wear black."

But have people ever thought that maybe, just maybe, people might wear black because they LIKE black?

Nowadays, it is easy to be dismissed as a Goth. All you need is black hair and heavy eye liner, and you are instantly known as a Goth by the media and its ill-informed listeners. What they don't know is that behind closed doors, you are rocking out to pop-punk, alternative, and metal - one of the very things that the Gothic subculture isn't a part of. If you ask somebody what a Goth is or listens to, you will get a different answer wherever you may go, but when I am asked exactly what it is, I will name off bands like Siouxsie & the Banshees, Specimen, Bauhaus, and early Skinny Puppy. I think of death-hawks, big black teased hair, black jeans, black leather jackets, and David Bowie makeup. But upon asking a wrongly informed observer, and you may get answers like HIM, Evanescence, Marilyn Manson, and My Chemical Romance.

Anything dark, black, or depressing is tied in with the subculture. Not to mention satan-warshipping, wrist-slitting, angst-ridden, life-hating mopers that are lost in life and spend every day dreading the next. Give me a break - that is the perception that the media has dispersed amongst the masses. The media thrives when it has managed to scare or shock - that's the material that gets viewers and high ratings. Do you know how badly things like the Columbine shootings or Virginia Tech incident has crippled the general publics outlook on our culture? There isn't a day that goes by that we aren't shunned because of such incidents, simply because the crimes committed were done by people donning black clothing.

Simply put - black is just a color.

I always thought that people were more smarter than that, but it seems that a lot of people just can't see past a stereotype. They don't see that the shooters in the Columbine incident were troubled for their own reasons, and not because of the clothes they wore. They would rather blame it on the fact that they wore black or listened to "evil" music, and judge their mental stability on that. And that's what makes some people so ignorant - the fact that they are content with blaming it on a stereotype, rather than blaming the influence that drove this person to insanity in the first place. Why did they do what they did? Because the black in their trench coat made them evil? Did Marilyn Manson reach in behind him and pull the trigger?

The most worst part of this question is that even though we shouldn't be judged negatively just by the way we present ourselves in our appearance, people have died just for the being a part of the Goth Subculture. Take recent cases like Sophie Lancaster - a twenty year old woman who happened to be part of our subculture. Just because of the clothes she wore, she was kicked in the head, stomped on, and beaten to death by a group of kids in Stubbylee Park, Bacup, in Lancashire. Her boyfriend was also beaten, but later regained consciousness. If this isn't a good example of the ignorance that a stereotype brings, I don't know what is.

The sad part is, Goths will probably continue to be stereotyped and judged upon a few bad seeds just by the way they dress, and that is the way it is. Incidents in the past have caused our subculture to be crippled in many communities, especially throughout Canada and the United States - but together, many of us still stand. We defend our beliefs and community by continuing to be the people who we want to be, unaffected by the negativity and stereotypes that modern day society has placed over our heads.

Like us or not - we are Goths, and we want the same thing as any other subculture, and that is to dress the way we feel like dressing without being ridiculed. Who is it hurting?

Learn more about this author, Kimberly H..
Click here to send this author comments or questions.


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