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| No | 26% | 14 votes | Total: 54 votes | |
| Yes | 74% | 40 votes |
With the future uncertain for Joe Torre and his reign as Yankee skipper the debate on whether to retain him or not has run wild. One camp says Torre is a genius, perfect for New York and a valuable commodity. The other says he just doesn't have it now if he ever really did. Now it's time to weigh in.
Joe Torre has compiled an impressive record with the Yankees. He was a career losing manager with three organizations before being pulled out of the broadcast booth to skipper the Yankees. An excellent player- undoubtedly. A nice guy- undisputed. A great mangaer- Let's not be so fast bestowing that.
Joe Torre walked into a dream situation. He was handed a dynasty in the making, actually almost complete. While most people assume the great 90's teams were his product the actual truth is they were assembled by Buck Showalter and Gene Michaels while Steinbrenner was under suspension. Bernie, Jeter, Pettite, and Rivera were all in the pipeline. Posada already in the system came along later as a full timer. Showalter got the talent he wanted from Michaels via trades and free agencey to supplement the homegrown talent. They put together a gritty young hard nosed team with balance and horses in the rotation. Not Torre, he showed up in spring training.
While that core team remained intact the Yankees won. The myth more than legend of Torre grew. "What a genius" so many gushed. Being honest however with the pool of talent assembled it would be harder to lose than win. Then never underestimate the immense value of his bench coach Don Zimmer. Torre has never won the big game without Zim on the bench. It begs the question who was the real genius.
Despite the expenditure of around 1.25 BILLION dollars into payroll and luxury tax Torre has failed to win the series again. Despite being given almost any weapon he desired he fails to score. Despite a farm system that has been far from the pedestrian assesment of depleted the job remains unfinished.
While it is agreed he can't hit or pitch for the players it is his job to field the best team he can everyday and put people in the position to succeed. He hasn't been doing that. The most notable botches of the last two years are- Leaving in Joba after losing playoff game composure to soldier ants. Sheffield at first in the playoffs despite having no experience. Wang on three days rest for the first time in his career during an elimination game against a team that has recently destroyed him. Arod in the eight hole- way to show onfidence in the games best player. Any instance of bringing in Farnsworth with less than a 10 run lead. Okay that is an exaggeration but not by much if you watched him pitch this year.
While Torre will receive credit in the record books for the wins and got his winning percentage in positive numbers finally saying he has been pivotal to the yankees success is like saying Louis Gerstner Jr. was a genius for not bankrupting IBM when his father handed it to him. It's like saying a powerball winner is an instant financial genius. When does a resume built on the past lose it's punch and when is a manager held up to succeeding? For Torre the time is now, if he wants to actually be remembered as a genius he needs to leave and win somewhere that he builds the team rather than inherits it. While I wouldn't go so far as to call him clueless Joe, I certainly wouldn't heap too much praise on him for the yankees past wins either. Had Buck Showalter stayed everyone would be talking about him and Torre would be wherever old broadcasters that can't get managing jobs go to die.
Learn more about this author, Amanda Fox.
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The 2008 baseball season is going to be an interesting one in New York as the Yankees will be starting the season with a new manager for the first time since 1996. After the Yankees were knocked out of the 2007 playoffs by the Cleveland Indians, Torre's status with the club was in doubt. During the off-season, the Yankees offered Torre a new contract which cut his pay by $2 million, and offered one million for every round of the playoffs he made. Torre found the deal to be insulting, especially the idea that incentives were needed to inspire Torre to win, and rejected it, ending his career with the Yankees as he traveled west to the Dodgers of Los Angeles.
In the 12 seasons after his arrival in New York, Torre compiled 1173 wins and 767 loses, which resulted in a winning percent of .604. During this time, the Yankees reached the playoffs every season and were able to win the World Series a total of four times during the twelve year span. Let us not forget that Torre won Manager of the Year honors twice, in 1996 and 1998, along with leading the Yankees to the 10th best record ever in the history of baseball when they finished the season with 114 wins and 48 losses. There are some who feel Torre's tenure with the Yankees was mediocre at best since he was given the reins on a championship caliber team and should had won more championships. They feel with the money Yankees owner, Steinbrenner, was able to throw around at free agents, the Yankees should reach the World Series year after year. Recent they cite the recent early exits from the playoffs when the Yankees lost in the first round of the playoffs in the past three years.
When Torre was hired by Steinbrenner, he was crucified in the papers, earning the nickname, "Clueless Joe", by the media and fans. They felt Torre was not the right manager for a team that had not won their division since 1981 and had only one playoff appearance in 15 years thanks to a wildcard berth. Much of this lack of faith was based on Torre's managerial career prior to his arrival to the Yankees. From 1977 to 1995, Torre managed the New York Mets, St. Louis Cardinals, & Atlanta Braves. When looking at Torre's managerial record for these three times, which he had 894 wins and 1003 loss and led to a .471 winning percentage. During that time, he only managed one playoff appearance, where he lost in the NLCS with the Braves in 1982.
Though Torre did not have a glowing win loss record, Torre did bring his smooth and even keel managerial style to a team who needed leadership to help right the ship. During his first six seasons with the Yankees, Torre helped guide them to five division titles and five World Series appearances, where they managed to leave as World Champions four times. The Yankees' dynasty was reborn due to the homegrown talent from the Yankees farm system. With players like Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera beginning their careers at the start of Torre's tenure, he was given the foundation of success.
Most will claim Torre's success was due to the loads of free agents who were bought by the deep wallets of Steinbrenner. A lot of it stems from the arrival of GM Brian Cashman who arrived in 1997. In the beginning, the Yankees were making key acquisitions to fill weak spots in the lineup and make it a competitive team. The selective signing of free agents was a key part of the early championships. As time went on and their success increased, the Yankees started to compete with their rivals, the Boston Red Sox, for the highest priced free agents. Steinbrenner became fanatical about keeping the top free agents away from their opponents and spent how ever much was needed to. As a result, the team did not spend enough time on examining the long term affects of the signing. Torre was left to try and manage the teams full of egos and aging veterans past their primes. Torre was at his best behind the scenes as he kept relationships professional between players even when there was conflict. A perfect example is when Alex Rodriguez joined the Yankees. At the time, the Yankees' captain, Derek Jeter was their shortstop and it made people wonder what would happen with another shortstop in the form of A-Rod. Torre was able to convince Rodriguez to move to third base as it would benefit the team more. Though there was tension between Jeter and Rodriguez, Torre was able to maintain a professional relationship between the two for the remainder of his time with the Yankees.
There were numerous times in recent years where the Yankees were slow out of the gate and many felt it would be the end of the Yankees run in the playoffs. By the end of the season, Torre had managed the team with enough moves to bring regular season success. The playoff failure was not for a lack of his managerial capabilities, but rather a result of the free agents who failed to live up to expectations. Especially when it came to the numerous starting pitchers who came to New York and had big things expected of them. Prime examples are Kevin Brown, Randy Johnson who both came to the Yankees for millions of dollars but produced less than 50 wins between them over the course of four injury plagued seasons.
In recent years, Cashman has started to learn from Torre the value of the farm system and how a successful team does not need to be built on free agents. This was seen with the success of Robinson Cano and the promise of players like Phil Hughes and Joba Chamberlain. His presence will be felt on the Yankees for some time to come while the Dodgers will look for a resurgence of the glory days under the leadership of an often underrated Joe Torre. The upcoming seasons for the Yankees and Dodgers will go along way to strengthen Torre's legacy as being one of the true greats to manage the game. Torre will be remembered as one of the true greats to manage the game during the age of the high priced free agents.
Learn more about this author, JM Van Horn.
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