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Is Iran already at war with the US?

Results so far:

No
44% 122 votes Total: 280 votes
Yes
56% 158 votes

No

by Robert C. Sage

Created on: October 14, 2007

I agree that Iran is in a war with America, only it is not of their own making. America is already funding terrorist activity against Iranians inside Iran and in third countries such as Iraq and elsewhere. We are fortunate that Iran has not succumbed tot he neo-con provocations and threats. A full out war with Iran would not benefit anyone, least of all America or Iran. It would be a fantastic waste of resources and lives. It could not be won, just as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be won as they have been fought.

Invading and occupying foreign countries, due to distortions, fabrications and unproven allegations does not get us anywhere. Look at the heap of trouble that we are in next door in Iraq, then consider that Iran has three times the population and is a more cohesive society. They would not be pushovers like the Baathists of Iraq, who are now leading insurgencies that cause most of the killings of Americans in Iraq.

Bush and his underlings including General Petreas do us no service by continuing to make unproven allegations about Iranians killing U.S. soldiers. The fact is that Iraq's bazaars are awash in weapons from every conceivable source, including a goodly share of American weapons. Based on the type of evidence presented to date concerning Iranian weapons, it would be fair to concluded that the U.S. is behind many killings of U.S. soldiers, because U.S. weapons were used. Why aren't there good investigations behind the fact that 100,000 U.S. weapons have simply disappeared in Iraq? It seems reasonable to conclude that the powers that be fear the results, as they could uncover corruption, bribery, treason, murder, rape, profiteering, etc.

It is ironic that people like JD Russel ignore that Iran's President Ahmedinejad does not control the military services or the foreign policy in Iran. Those areas are the responsibility of Grand Ayatollah Khamanei, who is more circumspect with his comments and his actions. However, even if we consider the Mr. Ahmedinejad's actual comments, we would soon realize that they barwe often distorted by virulent neo-cons, the same ones who refuse to believe polls, because they refuse to accept the facts. Mr. Ahmedinejad is not the one who has directly threatened Israel or the US, quite the opposite, it it the neo-cons and Zionists who have threatened Mr. Ahmedinejad and Iran. Vice President Dick Cheney and Israeli leaders talk openly and in public about nuking Iran and causing regime change. We don't hear that from Iran!

In fact, Iran has not attacked another sovereign nation in recent memory. Yes, the rebellious students did take over our Tehran embassy, but not one American was killed and those who were ill were released first. Iran has never financed the overthrow of an American government, but America's CIA financed the removal of a popular, democratically elected prime minister in 1953 and replaced him with an unpopular tyrannical dictator, the Shaw. I doubt many Americans would choose the Iranian form of government or many of their policies, but why shouldn't Iran have the right to determine its form of government and who should be their leaders.

If there is a problem with credit card scams via the internet from Nigeria going through computers in Iran, then our government should engage the government of Iran directly as well as through indirect channels like the International Criminal Court, not by going to war! Criminals will exploit the weakest link in order to do their crimes and if they use Iranian computers does not automatically prove Iranian government involvement. That F. Hoffmann-La Roche Ltd.,Daiwa Bank Ltd.,BASF, SGL Carbon, Exxon Corp., UCAR Int'l, Archer Daniels Midland all paid criminal fines over $100 in the 1990s does not prove that their home country governments were involved. If there are scams occurring through Iran, then they must be pursued, but not by nuclear weapons or soldiers!

America needs to dialog with Iran, not fight it! Why should war be the first resort?
What could possibly be gained by one more war of conquest, other than ideological rectitude and profiteering by companies political connected to the war mongers? Why would people want more war, when the war in Iraq alone has already killed over 1.2 million Iraqi men, women and children? What type of sick minds enjoy fomenting hate and violence by promoting unnecessary, unwinnable wars? Fanning the flames of misunderstanding and beating the drums of war is inappropriate, unfair, immoral, unethical and contrary to core message of every major religion. It is insane.

The war between Iraq and Iran lasted for 8 years and ended indecisively, although Saddam Hussein had been convinced that he would win it quickly. It caused hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides. The Iranians are quite patriotic and although many may be unsatisfied by their leaders, that is not sufficient justification to attack. Nor is the allegation that Iran could have its designs on development nuclear weapons. Indeed, South Africa, Israel, India and Pakistan all have developed nuclear weapons without America attacking them. Ironically, Iran is a signatory of the non-proliferation treaty (Israel is not!) and is cooperating with IAEA inspectors (Israel does not). From the lack of any WMD in Iraq, we should have learned that UN inspectors know what they are doing. Both John Ritter and Hans Blitz tried to tell us that Saddam no longer had the WMD that America had supplied him with years earlier. The moral to that story is to use the inspection system.

What is incredible to me is that many of the neo-con war mongers who are trying to cause war with Iran consider themselves to be religious. I know that the same is true of many warmongers in Israel, al-Qaeda, Northern Ireland and Sri Lanka, however all that proves is that there are misguided psychopaths in every religious tradition who exploit positions of influence to deceive followers to fight wars. We would be well served by legislation outlawing the promotion of war against supposed enemies that have not attacked America. It is too easy for ideologues to use rumor, deception and fabrication to justify unjust wars for their selfish motives, whatever they might be. War is not to be glibly embarked upon. It is not healthy or righteous. Promoting war is sick.

Instead of looking for a pretense to attack Iran, America should extend diplomatic recognition and engage Iran on the entire range of subjects of concern. Just as with North Korea, we must talk, with both eyes open. Ironically, in the case of Iran, we have common religious roots in the Abrahamic Judeo tradition which exists in Islam, something that is non-existent with North Korea.

That is not the only areas of commonality with Iran. In fact, both the U.S. and Iran strongly support the new government of Iraq. Also, Iran has consistently rejected al_Qaeda and the Taliban and was a supporter of the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan that ultimately removed the Taliban from power together with America.
In fact, Ronald Reagan secretly sold weapons to theocratic Iran not longer after the Embassy hostages were released. Dick Cheney's Halliburton's subsidiary had contracts with Iran, while he was C.E.O. That sure sounds like huge flipflop to me.

What this indicates to me is that the neo-con rush to war is based on temporal issues and convenience. Endless war keeps the American people on edge and allows neo-cons to wrap themselves in the flag. Beware of false flag claims that are not proved beyond a reasonable doubt. From the plethora of unanswered questions about 9-11 and the falsehoods used to get us to invade Iraq, America must carefully investigate and research any outrageous claims about Iran. So far, the neo-cons have been unable to make their claims stick, because they never provide the proof. Neo-cons don't provide conclusive proof because it doesn't exist. America has had too much of the "smoke and mirrors" games from the war zeolots.

Learn more about this author, Robert C. Sage.
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Yes

by JD Russell

Created on: October 12, 2007

Yes, Iran is already at war with America even if Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, steadfastly denies the facts.

Iran has opened up war on two fronts with America and her allies, conventional warfare and electronic financial warfare via the internet.

Iranian weapons, training and actual covert Iranian military personnel are being used to kill American soldiers stationed in Iraq on a daily basis. In addition, the Iranian government has also decided to embark on a new age mission to financially attack the citizens of the United States and other Western democracies by allowing their country to be used as the hub for the growing international credit card and identity theft schemes that were once thriving in Nigeria.

While the Iranian electronic financial warfare is costing businesses and individuals millions of dollars, Iran's conventional warfare is costing America its most precious resource, our American soldiers. The Iranian government is actively killing our soldiers.

How much more American blood can be allowed to drench the hands of the Iranian government in power before we seek justifiable retribution against a country that publicly considers America their enemy? How much longer are we going ignore the Iranian supplied weapons and training that are being used to kill our troops on a daily basis?

While it is true that many countries supply weapons to other countries for profit, Iran is not supplying the weapons and training militias in Iraq for profit. Their sole mission is to kill as many Americans soldiers while saying their hands are clean of American blood. The Iranian proxy war against America to take over Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon in their push to wipe Israel off of the map is not acceptable and will not be tolerated much longer.

How many more American men and women soldiers will be sent home in body bags to their families courtesy of the Iranian government's decision to kill our soldiers?

At what point do President Bush and our military leaders decide that enough
American soldiers have died at the hands of the Iranian government before we respond to the line drawn in the sand by Iran using the blood of American soldiers? President Bush and our top military leaders can only hold their heads high so long knowing in their hearts the Iranian government's own Iranian Revolutionary Guard division is instrumental and guilty in participating in the deaths of many of our soldiers in Iraq.

With the Iranian government's hatred for America so strong and undeniable, the fingerprints of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards can probably be found in Afghanistan, Pakistan and many places of conflict taking place now on the African continent. There is no doubt their bloody fingerprints can be found in Western countries as well. It wouldn't be surprising to learn that Osama Bin Laden and his key operatives are hiding in Iran instead of Pakistan.

Is the Iranian Government becoming common thieves or is it a planned financial attack?

Allowing the use of the Internet system under the Iranian government's direct control as one of their weapons of war to financially attack the United States and other western democracies is a declaration of war. It is hard to believe the Iranian government has decided to become common thieves as well but one could say that by their recent actions.

The Iranian government's recent decision to allow the computer operations of criminals based in Nigeria and other African countries, who steal people's identities and their money through elaborate Internet schemes, to operate from computer networks in Iran only reinforce the contempt Iran has for international laws.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad can't say he doesn't know what is going on around him. They have their fist on good honest Iranians on a daily basis. They know very well about the internet criminal elements setting up shop in Iran and most likely expect to enjoy the benefits of the millions of dollars stolen from credit card holders around the world.

It is time to put the criminal regime in Iran out of business for the good of all of the decent people in the Middle East and to send the message to Iran that murdering our American soldiers will no longer be tolerated. The Iranian government's immunity from retribution and justice is coming to an end as their disguise as a civilized government falls away to reveal the government leaders as murderers and now greedy participants in the international credit card fraud schemes.

The slowly ticking clock is speeding up towards the impending conflict with
Iran. The drums of war could be heard if they would only listen before it is too late.

Iranian President, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the Iranian / Religious government leaders around him are mistakenly thinking that America is the same country we were back in 1979. They are very wrong and will soon find out first hand that we are tired of them murdering our Americans soldiers. They should quit ignoring the drums of war beating faintly and steadily.

Despite the sideshow of the weakness demonstrated by the leading Democrat presidential candidates Clinton and Obama and the present Democratic leadership on Capital Hill; the majority of Americans regardless of biased opinion polls are tired of turning the other cheek and watching our sons and daughters, our husbands and wives, and our fathers and mothers be murdered at the hands of the Iranian government.

We are also tired of wondering and worrying about where and when the next terrorist attack will happen in the United States. Most Americans understand that Democratic leaders live in a world of wishes and not reality.

No, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, we are not the same people from 1979 thanks to the actions of murderer Osama Bin Laden. Forget about the skewed polls, the majority of Americans know we can't go home again only to expect more attacks in the future.

The blood of American soldiers on the hands of the Iranian Government can't and will not be ignored much longer by President Bush and our top military leaders. They owe it to our troops in the field who signed up to protect America to take the fight directly to any group or any country's government who try to kill them on a daily basis.

No one signed up for the military to be murdered by the Iranian government who thinks they have immunity from justice and retribution.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, hear the drums. They are getting louder and the clock is ticking faster.

Learn more about this author, JD Russell.
Click here to send this author comments or questions.


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